Bulging/Puffy Eyes

I have found one of my babies to have a drama. For some time now my boy (Dash) has had puffy or ''bulging'' eyes... Sometimes i wonder if it is stirred by excitement due to me coming home or anyone coming into my room. I saw an exotic specialist (so he said) several months ago and he examined my boy and suggested to me to make a few changes to the terrarium; temperature, light fittings and turf and so on... Having changed all of this I've moved on from that Vet and decided to take the course into my own hands...
The puffiness appears to be a build up of air at the rear of his eyeball... The eye exterior grows almost to the size of a pea but the eye itself doesn't appear to move at all. His vision is impaired when the eye is puffy and misses his target by approximately an inch.
He is a healthy 2year old and live with his Sister (Tek) who had not had this problem... nor signs of it... They have been fed, cared for and played with regularly and equally. Help...?
-Nath-

It isnt an eye problem.
its called eye bulging(sp) Im willing to bet that your dragon is going to shed his head very soon.
He is stretching the skin around his eyes to shed it.

it freaked me out the first time i saw that to, never saw my first one ever do that

Why is it this ''issue'' I'll call it has been going on constantly for approximately 7 months? I'm not willing to accept that he he partially shedding for such a lengthy period. Again... his vision is impaired and itchiness occurs... as a result of this the sand based turf he is on goes into his eyes... On a daily basis i am cleaning it out and its a painful experience for him.
You are correct in suggesting he is going to shed his head soon. The scales and spikes has gotten lighter... but it doesn't explain a few things.
Still concerned. Its hard to trust a vet these days... They hadn't a solution for me...

Hello,

Your dragon's eyes have been puffy for 7 months? Can you post a picture of him then?
I can tell you that the eyes being that puffy is not normal.
That can indicate renal problems, or heart problems possibly. I would recommend getting a blood test done though to rule those issues out.
I do have another comment. You mentioned that he is living with his sister. Honestly, that is not a good idea. They will inbreed & that is not recommended. Have they not tried to mate yet?

Tracie

I've been told from a number of people that it is not uncommon to have siblings breeding but you cannot do it too regularly... Also, he has shown... I guess ''attempts'' at courtship behavior but it is totally unsuccessful... amusing to watch. I have not planned the tank to the conditions of breeding.. If they do it, well... they do it, see what happens.
On the blood test side of things, i have done it, have been told by the vet, (again, useless bas#$%&s) the there is nothing noticeably wrong with his blood test results but he only appeared to be a little low on vitamins so the vet gave him an injection to boost them... since then i have up'ed the vitamin intake for him and there has been no change in the eye appearance. I suppose I should see to another blood test...
The second image is when the eye has ''gone down'' after some period of time... The skin obviously sags but doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable for him.

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I don't think that's normal. I've seen one of my girls do the eye bulging thing and it didn't get at big as your beardie's eyes did. Also, the way the eyes sank in usually means they could be dehydrated. I agree with Tracie, tho the eye bulging doesn't happen all the time. The vet you saw, was he a vet that specialized in beardies? We saw a vet with one of our first two that "saw reptiles", figured he knew about beardies because he was in practice for 20 years (at that time). He is not one I'd go to again with my beardies. We have to go to a larger town to see a reptile vet and they are much better, all these vets do is reptiles (beardies and others).

Hello,

I have to agree, the eyes do not look normal at all. That looks to be a renal issue or heart problem, or even possibly severe dehydration. They should not be sunken in that way, either. The skin should not puff up & then deflate to that extreme of measure.
It is totally unacceptable to even allow siblings to breed because then you can have some serious problems with hatchlings. I do not agree with inbreeding at all & it is not fair to allow the dragons that are related to even mate. How old are they? If they are under 2 years of age, they should not breed. It will greatly decrease the life span of your female & could cause serious health problems or even injury to both animals.


He needs to see a vet regarding how those eyes look, they do not look good at all. Perhaps something was missed on the initial blood test. If you have a copy of the blood tests, I can look at them for you in case they missed something. Did they review it with you?
What type of supplementation & lighting are you using? What is the particular brand of supplementation you use?
I would take the sand based turf out since it is irritating his eyes. Try non adhesive shelf liner, tiles, or paper towels.
What are the temperatures in the tank & what type of thermometer are you using?
What type & brand of UVB light do you use, a fluorescent tube bulb or a compact/coil light?

Tracie

I use ReptileOne as my instruments for the tank setup. I have a fluorescent tube light 18w UVB 10.0. A small ceramic heat disk that has the tank at approximately a maximum of 35°C during the day and about 20°-25° at night. A heat mat at the opposite end of the tank to the little water dish. Water is always available for him. Perhaps I should put some water in a eye dropper and squirt water into his mouth.
The vitamin/calcium powders I'm using are brand aristopet .
Regarding a blood test. I did not review it with the vet as I doubt I would have had terribly much knowledge about what the results would have said. But as i mentioned previously. he was an ''exotic pets specialist'' and see's approximately 1000 to 1500 lizards/dragons on average per year. By the way. The Veterinary clinic I went to was not just your average clinic. I took my boy to Lort Smith, Victoria, Australia. This is an animal hospital/shelter. Much the same as a people hospital in size and medical knowledge.
When the vet thought it may have been an eye problem (which appears to be ruled out), I was instructed to change the set up of the tank, I originally had crushed walnut. The reason i had this was because it was easily digestible for them if swallowed. The walnut was replaced with shredded newspaper in the case that he was getting the stuff in his eyes. The paper was there for about 3-4 months and no changes occurred in the eye. I used a saline solution, from the vet to ''wash his eyes out'' which seemed to comfort him.

That looks to be a renal issue or heart problem

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I'm sure that the vet would have told me this.. and doubt its something he could have missed in the blood test.
They are about 2 years old next month. So I'll disregard breeding. Besides.. I read the Beardy owners book (looking for answers) and found that breeding is quite difficult so I'll eliminate the hibernation period, the way and times I'm working its difficult to monitor the specifics for the hibernation period.

Hi,

Drache, from what I can tell from the pictures, the eyeballs themselves appear to be fine. It is the tissue AROUND the eyes themselves that is swelling. I do not think that this is a heart or renal issue which from what I have seen attack the eyes directly. (please dont quote me on this!). As the OP said, he had a chat to the vet, and there was nothing notably wrong with the results apart from being a little bit vitamin deficient.

@beardednath:
1. The vet probably did a full survey blood test. These can pick up a lot of things, but specific tests need to be performed for a lot of stuff. I would recommend taking the test results BACK to the vet who did the blood test, and talk them over with him. (and do ask about the heart/renal thing! I don't believe that they are the case here, but its better to be safe than sorry!). You say that you didn't have a chat with him about it... I think that may have been your first mistake! As you say, the guy is a specialist, and he sees MANY lizards a year, so would probably know what he is talking about. He wont charge you just to have a chat!

2. The swelling obviously goes down. If it was the above case, it would be a constant thing. I know people with kidney problems, and their eyeballs (nb. the actual eyes) stay constantly bulgy. Does it inflate/deflate at certain times of the day?

3. When it goes down... where does the stuff that inflating the eye socket go to? If it is just air, it could be that the beardy is 'leaky' (for lack of a better word!), and air is getting in through his sinuses or maybe some kind of mouth problem. (did the vet do a full examination????)

Good luck mate, be sure to chat to the vet.



Jazz

I really dont know what else to say on the health issue, apart from go back to the vet and chat. i do know there are alot of things i would say need changing re the husbandry.

Firstly, what Brand of UVB are you using and how old is it? Secondly 35c is too low. They need a nice temp gradiant, about 35c on the 'hot side', but with a basking spot of 40-41c, and a cool end of 23-24c, of course all measured with an acurite thermometer. Also the heat mats are not good for beardies,as they take soo much longer to sense heat from below, they have been know to short and get incredibly hot and the lizard just burns before it realised its too hot.

Have you been bathing them to keep them hydtrated?

I would also suggest not having any particle at all as a substrate, but something like slate tile or just paper towel to avoid getting anything in there, they do seem very irritated.

Also sorry, again off topic, but you cant 'surpress' breeding or really brumination, its a natural thing and sibling pairings will not only be stressful on them but produce malformed babies.

I really hope with all heads together something can be figured out!

Buggsy

what Brand of UVB are you using and how old is it?

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I stated earlier it is a ReptileOne fluorescent tube light 18w UVB 10.0. The light itself couldn't be more than 6months old... The 'hot side' in opposite the water dish and has a ceramic heat lamp above it... I find more often than not he/they are gaping because of it, also the tank is near a window so they get a fair bit of heat from that also. As soon as i found out from the vet that he potentially has stuff in his eye i began bathing it... Everyday, several times a day and replaced the ground with newspaper so that there was no possibility anything could get in there and irritate it... They have now got a very fine red dust since about 4 months after changing the set up of the terr...

i have never heard of that brand before, usually i suggest a reptiSUN 10 or if in the Uk and arcadia 12% UVB, as these have been tested and the UVB output is very good. At 6 months the bulb will need changing now, so maybe get one of the better known bulbs??

They also require a bright white bulb to bask, not just a ceramic heat emitter. The bright white protects their eyes from the potentially harmful UVB rays. CHE's are fine for bumping the temp up at night, but a normal house hold bulb is needed for basking.

Again, i would not use a particle substrate (fine or not) as not only will it be irritating his eyes, but it can harbour lots of bacteria and pose an impaction risk if ingested.

Again this is just about tweaking the husbandry, i do think he will need to go back to the vet as this is deff not normal. Did you get a chance to speak to him?

Just to clear the air here on the posters uvb light, I did a search and found it here
http://www.reptileone.com.au/lighting.php

BeardedNath... are you in Australia? It seems from the search I did, this is a light sold in Australia. We are not familiar with this particular uvb, this is the reason you were asked about it again. Generally if there is no underlying health issues, eye problems may be related to the type of uvb one is using.

Yes sorry, i had look at the website but didn't find distributors, Aat would explain why we wouldn't know it lol! i just thought if the vet couldnt come up with a health issue, it might be an underlying husbandry issue, but its a very long shot, i hope the OP has managed to see the vet again with their concerns.