Urgent! light, substrate and temperatures - With Photos!

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alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Aloha!
I have recently got my first small beardie, approx 5/6 months old, around 75 grams and 22-26 CM long...
I Have some photos here
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/6740/dragon1i.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7289/dragon2b.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3528/dragon3mh.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9199/dragon4j.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1867/dragon5.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9549/dragon6r.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4097/dragon7.jpg
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1292/dragon8.jpg

I got recommended at reptileforums.co.uk not to use my compact UVB light, as it could turn out to be not sufficient.
It is a Exoterra Repti Glo 10.0 13W...
The basking light is a 100 W normal white light basking bulb. Do you recommend a tube, and in this case, please give me advices of a couple of good ones.

Second question> Substrate. I have a temporary solution of thick outdoor carpet in the bottom and on the top shelf liner - which in the long run is not really sanitary and not easy to clean.. I was thinking about tiles instead, is this a good idea? Otherwise - any other suggestions? Money is not a problem - could it be worth getting fake grass carpet or reptile carpets? In this case - recommendations of specific ones?

3rd and last issue> Temperatures... I live in Malta, so temperatures are not really low here. Although now in winter time, temp goes down to around 20-21 in room, meaning same temp inside terrarium at night - ok? Cool side is usually around 23-24 in day time and warm side around 27-29... I am planning on getting a secondary heat source - as the only one I have is actually the 100W basking light ATM. Could you recommend a heating mat with suitable thermostat - OR infrared heating bulb, with suitable thermostat...

Now, another thing is that - basking area should be no more than around 47 degrees, but since *see photos* - I have made it like this, temp directly under basking light is approx 65 degrees C and obviously my dragon is never directly underneath since it is too hot for her...
Any kind of suggestions are highly appriciated, and answers ASAP. Thanks a lot! :mrgreen:

Ps. "Hope" Says hi!
 

Gail

BD.org Addict
Yeah, the coils are no good regardless of who makes them. You want a tube, either a reptiSUN 10.0 or Arcadia 12%.

You can use reptile carpet but it hard to keep clean too. Many people opt for slate tile or some type of tile with a natural stone like textures. Super easy to clean, looks nice and helps keep dragons nails filed down.

I don't know conversion of Celsius but heat mats aren't recommended. You are better off with a low watt ceramic heat emitter.
If you basking temps are too high then you have 2 choices, either get a bulb with less wattage or lower the basking area. In your case I would probably try lowering the basking area first since you have such a large piece of wood, you can simply replace it with something less tall.
 

alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Some updates>
I think I am totally overreacting about most things.
Now that the breeder of my dragon told me he uses this solution for all his desert dwelling lizards, I am quite confident using this as well - although I would need an additional heat/light source or two.

I thought she was impactated, but feeling her belly, I can confirm it feels very soft... She is just a bit lethargic and slow, and probably still (after having her for about 2 1/2 weeks) about nervous about me. She has started to blink on one eye and I will clean the terrarium today and put some stones close to the light instead, for a more normal temperature, more spread of light and hopefully more spread of heat for now. :)
She is about 6 months old I presume, weighs 97 g = 3.42157 oz (70 g = 2.46917 only when I got her) and is around 25 cm = 9.8 in long.
Degrees in cool end is currently 71.6 F/ 22C in daytime and around 68/21C at night in whole terrarium - too cold.
Warm side is around 86F/30C so perfect, and basking is currently up to 149F/65C, so in need for change. She is not really moving anywhere else than the root at the moment, and I presume it is because of the heat around there - and the lack of it everywhere else.
 

diamc

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
When the temps are that high, they can cause heat stroke not to mention rapid dehydration. It's not a good idea to have temps over 110 anywhere in the tank. You could try a 60 watt household light bulb and see what the basking temp is then, you might possibly need a 75 watt. For the cool side, you can pick up another clamp lamp and put a lower wattage bulb in it for the cool side. Hopefully you'll be changing to the Repti-Sun 10.0 fluorescent so then you would have that clamp lamp to put the lower wattage bulb in for the cool side.

Sounds like she is already showing symptoms from using the coil/compact bulb like lethargy and eye symptoms, it would be a good idea to change it sooner rather than later. How often are you dusting her feeders with calcium and vitamins?

She us quite small for a 6 mo old.
 

alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Honestly, I am getting quite sick of this... I am having a bad day, but still, how much do I need to do to keep the lizard healthy?...
I am happy for your advices, but I never thought it would be this difficult to have a healthy beardie - I can tell you that I also have had horses, a dog and 4 cats - which does not take half the power - or money - that my cute beardie does.

I have taken away the UVB bulb since it seems like it does more harm than help.
I will explain further my frustration:
I have bought everything, including a the lizard and custom made terrarium, directly from a pet store owner here in Malta. He is a successful breeder of many, and I mean many, different types of lizards - including beardies, as I bought this one from him. They have had basically no health issues according to him, and here he posts photos of a few of his animals> http://aquariummalta.com/topic.asp?whichpage=4&TOPIC_ID=3513&FORUM_ID=105&CAT_ID=20&Forum_Title=19.2.+Lizards&Topic_Title=Some+of+my+Reptiles+and+Amphibians

It is difficult to trust you in the forum when he says that the light bulbs I now have are sufficient, as I asked him before if I need a tube. I mean, he does indeed make a lot more money of me selling that to me - so I beleive he is totally honest. I have now re-arranged the terrarium since I cleaned it yesterday for the first time. She seemed to be fine yesterday, and fell asleep on my chest during my girlfriend was cleaning. Adorable. She has been eating like a wild monster (a lot!) from time to time, and then she just have days - like today - when she is not even moving. She seems afraid of me and my girlfriend, and we have of course done nothing except bathing her now a total of 3 times. She was pooping some liquidy poo today and she was not interested of the crickets at all, and the fruits nothing. She is not even looking at me...
Should I put the UVB back directly, or leave it 2-3 days without so the "eyes recover" if they were perhaps affected before? I have now rearranged it so that only stones are under the basking spot, and the wooden piece is in the middle of the terrarium. She was always (I have never seen her anywhere else) on this wooden peace before, and now she is not moving from it. Could it just be that she has a tiny relocation stress as she was just getting used to it before, plus that she is now in the warmth today and therefore neither hungry nor active?
I am so tired of this , and I do not know what to do now. Reptile vets in Malta? Forget it. I will try to find some vet, I guess I will need it soon. Having the lizard since the 11th, so 2 weeks only.
Thanks
 

alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
please read previous post.
Small update: Still not moving basically, and one eye closed occasionally as well as he was gasping for air it looked like. I see that temps has been (in whole enclosure since I have not been able to get night heating yet) down to 19.5 degrees C (use internet to translate to F) and I wonder if this has anything to do with it? I know that he was in much higher temps before, and I wonder if it is the worst> respiratory infection? ... :(

He has been fed on mealworms last week a lot, unfortunately, due to the extreme lack of organization and stuff - there were no crickets on the island.
No I went back to the pet store, bought myself a whole lot of perfect sized brown crickets, and some morio worms. The breeder (same guy as before) told me that these were much better than the meal worms, and she was fed earlier today with them as well as earlier. Could this cause the diarrhea, or a combo of this, not enough heating... and moving around the terrarium? Now that she has runny poo, any suggestions? :shock:
 

diamc

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
I know you are frustrated, I've tried to offer you suggestions and help but I'm not sure that you want to hear anymore about what I have to say.
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
Hello
I think you have gotten great advice.The biggest problem is as I see it,is that he is overheated.This is very dangerouse and you truely need to remedy the situation rapidly as a baby beardie will decline quickly if dehydrated.Have you been bathing him to helo his hydration?
Lighting is simple,he absolutely needs a reptisun10 LINEAR bulb,the coils just have such a huge rate of decay they offer little to no useful UVB and at worst they damage the eyes.I do know many herp stores and breeders use them as they are cheaper but I do ask you seriously reconsider your thoughts on this matter.You dont even need to take our word for it,here is a link to the scientific data performed by Dr. Francis Baines in regards to reptile lighting:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/index.htm
You should review that as it will give you all the answers you need in regards to uvb.
As for heating really any bright household bulb that reaches the desired temps will do,there is no need for an expensive reptile heat bulb as they do the same job.
Honostlly the proof is in the pudding,your beardie is not happy,that is the only sign needed to determine a change is needed.I know your position,we all do as we have all been there but give our method a shot.I promise you will not be disappointed but as I said dont wait too long as it is very difficult to restore a babies health once it too far in decline.
I wish you much luck and hope to see you and your beardie in a happier position soon.
 

alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Hi again, I realize yesterday was a bad day.
Do not worry, I do take the advices seriously. I just had a really bad day and since I am currently in a depression and some other stuff, does not make it better. To the facts: I have not had her for more than 2 weeks, so I need to take it easy and really watch over a longer period of time. Today she seemed basically totally ok again (I have taken away the UVB just for a test, to see if it changes anything, and nothing so far). I do not know how active a beardie should be, but she seems anyway healthy, and pooped solid as well as ate pretty good - around 10 crickets, and then she did not want any more. She did eat a whole lot of prickly pear / cactus fruit before, so she seems honestly fine.
It seems like I am just looking for mistakes, since I am an extreme perfectionist, and there are indeed hundreds of different (sometimes completely contradicting) opinions how to treat a beardie.
I will get the reptisun 10.0 tube asap, and I have just now checked temps and they are actually, to my surprise quite perfect now: Around 45C/113F or lower in basking, around 30-31C/86-87.5F in hot area and around 24C/75F in cool area... I promise you that I have, as you might understand, read countless hours about this reptile, but it is not until I saw this website that I got my eyes open for the UVB light. Since supplies in Malta are very limited, and most companies do not ship here, it is stressful and not too fun when you just know you have the wrong lights.

Yes: I have been bathing her 4 times already and she eats a lot of prickly pears and does not seem dehydrated. Little bit slow, but moves more when you sit around the terrarium for a while. She is a little bit shy. The last owner never handled her, and therefore, it is of course a special little dragon I have... I have already put a piece of my pillow case in there so she gets used to my scent. Too sweet. Will keep you posted, and thanks a lot once again!
 

alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Small update:
She perked up lately, and I realize she is mostly being still due to the fact that she previous owner never handled her, as well as never was around except for feeding (and in this point, he never hand fed her, but let the pray jump around). She is now getting slightly more used to me and I took her out in the Sun for a while... she got quite active and really enjoyed it. Will take her out around 10 min every day now if I can - in the sun - and hopefully she will soon learn that I will never eat her hah.
Temps are perfect now and only thing that could possibly get better would be the UVB light - and I have ordered a tube now! 90 cm, Zoomed reptisun 10.0 with reflector - and terrarium is 1.1 meter long. Will this be too strong with reflector do you think? I guess it could basically never be too strong except with domes.
Thanks for all the help!
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
That sounds perfect,just make sure she is basking between 6-8 inches from the bulb,no further and no closer.
I am happy she is doing better,that is great.Going outside for natural UVB is fantastic, the longer the better and is probably why she is perking up a bit.Keep us posted,hopefully she will continue to do well.
 

alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Thanks a lot vickson!
She ate 22 crickets in one go yesterday - more than ever before! Took her out for some sunbathing today, she enjoyed it and starts to know me slightly more now.
Today though, she does not want to eat anything but 2 crickets and 2 pieces of fruit, even though she was out in the sun. Thought it might be the temp then, since it was very cold tonight in Malta, but I put on the element, and no appetite appearing anyway, tried now 4 times during the day! :eek:

Some pics!

pa240073.jpg

pa280109.jpg

pa280104.jpg

pa280101.jpg


Just a teaser, view from one of my windows of Malta's Capital Valletta
view1id.jpg
 

Seiryu

Hatchling Member
Very cool pics!

I just wanted to add. Remember UV (both UVA and UVB) rays do not pass through solid glass, only visible light does.

So if you're taking her out by the window and thinking she is getting UVB, she is not. Just letting you know as I don't want things to get worse, good luck!
 

alkemisten3

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
When reading about dehydration on extremedragons, it sounds like this could be it.
Her skin is really twisted as well when she... is twisting and small wrinkles sometimes under eyes... not pooping every day (every 2nd or 3rd) and eating ... not like a machine really
"Symptoms of dehydration are sunken eyes, wrinkled skin, lack of appetite, and lethargy"
"A good way of checking to see if your beardie is dehydrated is to gently pinch the skin on the side of their back between your fingers. If the skin rolls back into place almost immediately then the beardie is likely well hydrated. In a dehydrated beardie the skin may stay in a pinched, or tented position."

Will check this though, otherwise - should I try to give her some mix of (pure yes of course) juice and water then?
It says here: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Dehydration.html
That for her size (around 125 G heavy) 1.31 CC/ML is good amount of liquid? ... Seriously? 1.31 ML ? That is microscopic amount, 1 ml is 1/1000 L... or something like 1/2400 Gallon I think.

In general, she is doing much better now, and was shedding now! That might have been one reason as well, she seems so much happier that some of the shedding is over :) (Only the head so far I Believe)... :D
Thanks :)
 
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